tv Nancy Grace HLN January 12, 2010 1:00am-2:00am EST
breaking news tonight. live, arizona, a gorgeous 23-year-old mom takes off from her home, tempe, arizona, by car for a 978-mile road trip with this beautiful, 8-month-old baby boy, gabriel. she ends up spending christmas holed up in a local motel, alone, san antonio, texas. along the way calling the 25-year-old biological father threatening, threatening he'd never see the baby again, even telling bio dad baby gabriel is dead. turns out mommy was trying to give the baby away the whole
time to an arizona couple. mommy alone, no baby gabriel, hops a bus headed to florida, december 27, the day after the last credible sighting of baby gabriel alive. her car, abandoned. december 30, mommy's located miami beach, minus the baby. finally, car recovered, san antonio motel 6. baby's car seat still inside. when pressed, mommy says she gives the baby away to a couple she bumps into at a public park, texas. bombshell tonight. in the last hours, mommy hauled back to arizona, in court where prosecutors lay out the gut-wrenching scenario that mommy kills baby gabriel, conceals his tiny body in a
diaper bag and throws this beautiful baby boy into a dumpster like he's trash. tonight, mommy charged with felony kidnap, child abuse and interference with custody. but why not murder? why? is there hope baby gabriel is alive? would be adoptive parents, now named persons of interest in gabriel's disappearance, voluntarily take polygraphs. result? inconclusive. and we learn mommy refusing to help create a composite sketch of the couple she says take the baby. then she gets an attitude with the judge. not a good look, mommy. as we go to air, tips lead investigators to nashville, tennessee. tonight, can we save the baby with the angel face, baby gabriel?
would you state your name and date of birth? >> elizabeth johnson, 7/24/86. >> the arizona mother at the center of the baby gabriel missing boy case is in jail in maricopa county, arizona. >> arrested on a direct complaint warrant alleging custodial interference, class-4 felony. you've also been arrested on new charges alleging child abuse, a class-2 felony and one count of kidnapping. >> johnson's being held on a cash only $1.1 million bond. >> everything you're saying is completely false. >> there's another new development today as local affiliates report when johnson filed for custody of gabriel she said logan mcqueary might not be the father. >> this is a woman who changes her story the way the wind blows. >> she didn't want logan to have the baby. and we couldn't adopt the baby
because logan wouldn't sign the papers so her idea was to just keep running forever. >> we've always had kind of bickered and fighting a little bit. >> there are a lot of contradictions. >> she basically didn't want me to have him. >> she's playing games, obviously doesn't want the father to have contact with his child. >> when do i get a lawyer? >> i'm sorry? >> when do i get a lawyer? >> we're appoint ago lawyer now. we're going to give you instructions on how to contact your lawyer. >> okay. >> thank you. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. bombshell tonight. in the last hours, mommy hauled back to arizona in court where prosecutors lay out the gut-wrenching scenario that mommy kills baby gabriel. conceals his tiny body in a diaper bag and then throws the beautiful baby boy into a
dumpster like he's trash. mommy charged with felony kidnap, child abuse and interfering with custody. why not murder? is there hope baby gabriel is alive? >> missing baby gabriel's mom has been moved to an arizona now. >> the 23-year-old is being held on a cash-only $1.1 million bond. >> she told him that she put him in a diaper bag and threw him in a dumpster. to this date gabriel has not been found. the search for him is still on. the defendant isn't the only person who knows where gabriel is, if he's dead or alive and she refuses to cooperate and tell anyone where gabriel is. >> this is a pretty destructive woman, and as it's been said so many times, she's very manipulative. >> is there anything you want to ask me or tell me? >> ask you? i don't really know what to say. everything is so false from the claim to everything is so completely false. i don't know what else to say but that. >> she's prepared to stick to
her story and stay in jail as long as is necessary. >> there's another new development here today. johnson asked the court to force mcqueary and another man to take paternity tests. >> it's always been up and down with her. >> let's take a look at elizabeth. she lies a lot. >> everything she said has been completely unreliable. >> tell me why you believe that baby is alive. what do you know that makes you believe the baby is alive, mr. smith? >> you know, it's just a heart thing. >> ma'am, i have appointed the public defender to represent you. i noted you shaking your head and disagreeing with the comments -- >> yes, everything she was sig is completely false. >> please do not interrupt. i noted that you were disagreeing by shaking your head back and forth with comments made by the county attorney at various times during her
statement. while i recognize you may have a different view of what was said -- >> straight out to michael board, woai news radio. michael board, she's been hauled back to arizona in court in the last hours. what happened? >> well, nancy, we've talked a lot about doom and gloom on this show today. signs that maybe baby gabriel was murdered by this woman. but here's some other new that is's not been reported widely so far today. it was announced today that when elizabeth johnson was found in miami she had $500 cash on her. and the commander who's in charge of this investigation admitted that she should have run out of money a long time ago. this is an unemployed woman who was caring for an 8-month-old child who drove all the way from arizona to san antonio, bought a bus ticket. they said when she was in that miami youth hostel where she was
caught she had gone shopping. there was clothes. she'd even gotten her nails done. that's a sign she got money. where did she get that money from? this is signs opening the possibilities that possibly she did sell her child. >> she went shopping and got her nails done when her child is off with someone, according to her, she's never met a day in her life? >> where did she get the money? >> what is wrong with her, janet taylor? you're the shrink. >> well, i mean, you look at her background. she had a chaotic life, dysfunctional family. sounds like borderline personality disorder. it is a stretch but -- >> blah, blah, personality disorder. that's not an illness. it's not insanity. >> it is in the sense it can account -- i'm not saying she's insane. i think she's completely knows what she's doing but it can account for her lack of attachment to this beautiful 8-month-old. >> back to michael board. what else can you tell me, michael? >> you know, you have to track the money. how did she get the money there? it is signs possibly she did sell that child. that is something -- it's a
possibility. it's something that police are looking into and a definite sign as to why jack and tammi smith might be persons of interest. maybe they might know who she might have sold this child to. tough bring up those questions in this type of investigation. >> okay. i want to go to matt zarrell, our producer on the story. matt, isn't it true, by all appearances she had this trip, this road trip planned for some time because she sold her pets. she got several hundred dollars out of that. then she got a roommate. she got 400 or 500 bucks from him or her, whoever that was, and took off. she was using her grandfather's car. so what expenses did she have? >> well, that's what's interesting. cops are still trying to figure out where all the money went. she only had less than $500 with her. they thought she had well over $1,000 when she started the trip based on all the saving up. where did the money go? we're still trying to find out. >> she was staying at the youth hostel. that costs practically nothing, right, zarrell?
>> yes. >> where did all the money go? all the money is only about 1,000 bucks. she stayed at several motels including the motel 6. she needed gas money to get from tempe to san antonio that we know of. had to buy a ticket. about 150 bucks one way to florida. long story short, it works out fine. i don't think that just because you have $500 that indicates to me that she sold the baby. it does not indicate to me she sold the baby. we are taking your calls live. to maria in michigan. hi, maria. >> caller: hi, nancy. thank you for taking my phone call. >> thank you for calling in. what is your question? >> caller: last week i heard the worker of the hotel saw her leaving with a large backpack. have they explored the possibility of the baby being in that backpack or have they checked for dna? >> good question. what do we know, matt zarrell? was there a backpack? did an employee see her leaving with a backpack? >> the employee did see her. what we know, nancy, when she
was arrested in florida we know there was no sign of the baby. we have not heard reports about the backpack, though. we don't know if she stashed it somewhere or had it with her when she was arrested. >> let's unleash the lawyers. joining us tonight, gloria allred, attorney victims rights advocate out of l.a. alex sanchez, defense attorney, renowned in his jurisdiction of new york. anne bremner, high-profile attorney out of the seattle jurisdiction. wals us, tonight, crime analyst, direct with us from the pinelake pd, cheryl mccollum. first to you, gloria allred, weigh in. >> this is the person, this is a young woman who's told a lot of different stories and conflicting stories. so she's got a major credibility problem. from her point of view she's smart not to be talking right now. of course, nancy, from the baby's point of view, that's a very, very bad thing. >> and then, bremner, she cops and attitude in front of the judge. the judge had to say, don't interrupt me. all she cares about is where's my lawyer?
she doesn't give a flying fig about where's my baby. did she ever say, where's my baby? no, she didn't. she said, where's my lawyer, judge? >> the judge says you can have a lawyer and she is also shaking her head saying no, no, no, about what the prosecution was saying. and so all she was trying to do was jump in when he said, you're disagreeing with what the prosecutor says. then he says don't interrupt me. she's maintaining her innocence. she's entitled to a lawyer. she at least cares about all of that right now and she should. that's whoo she's entitled to. >> alex sanchez, if she wants to interrupt and interject so much, why doesn't she tell the cops the whole story and help with the composite sketch? what about that, sanchez? >> obviously, she's protecting herself at this point. i want to say something, nancy. i don't think the police or the prosecutor or anybody believes that child is dead. for the very question that you asked before. why isn't she charged with murder? >> why isn't she charged with murder? you're right, alex sanchez. >> she made confessions, they would have charged her. >> wait a minute.
>> the fact they didn't is revealing. >> don't you need a little thing called, oh, what is it, evidence? what about is, mccollum? you cannot under the law of our country prosecute an individual based on their confession alone. you got to corroborate it. >> nancy, they're going to wait until they recover a body or this child is found before they add murder. there's no time to hurry. >> she's on a $1 million bail, people. she's not going anywhere.
two huge developments in the frantic search for baby gabriel johnson. police in tempe, arizona, say the 8-month-old is in extreme danger. last seen with his mom, elizabeth johnson, late december. she's behind bars facing new serious charges. kidnapping, child abuse. cops say she won't tell them where baby is. >> to this date gabriel has not been found. the search for him is still on. the defendant is the only person who knows where gabriel is and if he's dead or alive, and she refuses to cooperate and tell anyone where gabriel is.
>> i don't really know what to false. everything she said is so completely false. i don't know what else to say but that. >> she allegedly told her ex-boyfriend she killed the child. >> she said, allegedly, something to the effect that she had smothered the child, put him in a diaper bag and put him in the dumpster. >> put in the text, i killed him. >> she killed him? >> yes. >> past tense? >> yes. i killed him. >> do you think, tammi, that she is capable of killing this baby? >> you know, from what i know of her, i don't believe so, but i've only known her maybe three or four weeks. >> straight back to michael board with woai news radio. everyone, we are taking your calls live. tonight, mommy hauled back to arizona just a few hours ago, in court before a judge, whom she interrupted repeatedly until he told her not to. copped an attitude. right now she's charged with
felony kidnap. she's charged with custodial interference, and child abuse. she's looking at that, alone, probably about 30 years. interestingly, even after the prosecutor lays out a gut-wrenching scenario of how she may have killed baby gabriel, she is not charged with murder. michael board, what can you tell me about the facility she's in and does she have a lawyer yet? >> she is in the jail at maricopa county jail in phoenix, arizona. it's a small cell. she's by herself. she's alone 23 hours of the day. she gets two meals a day. sheriff joe arpaio, maricopa county, makes everyone there wear pink. she's wearing pink underwear. she's eating bologna sandwiches for brunch each day. it's not a very good environment. >> oh, really? because do you know what she's having for dinner? barbecue ham, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, mandarin orange, dinner roll, margarine and a doughnut.
i had lettuce and onion. there you have it. joining us right now, two special guests. i want to go straight out to them. they're just joining us from phoenix. jack and tammi smith. the perspective adoptive couple that in my mind led this woman down the prim disease rose path. jack smith, tammi smith, thank you for being with us. it speaks volumes you're willing to come on with us, take my questions, the panel's questions, the viewers' questions. you took a polygraph voluntarily. you did not pass. you did not fail. your polygraph was inconclusive. jack smith, why? >> they told us pretty much that's what would happen. we would either fail or that would happen. i guess they have to examine how the questions were asked and all that. we did, however, get a call that a high-ranking official at the tempe police department said to one of the reporters off to the side that it's clear we have no idea where gabriel is. >> what about it, tammi? >> same thing. i pretty much have the same thing as his comment, but i was
also told by the examiner that every time that he said the word gabriel he could tell that we had an emotional response to it and that that could possibly cause it to come out inconclusive in which it did. >> tammi, you guys have talked to mommy, elizabeth johnson, 23 years old. you've talked to her. what is she saying? >> we only talked to her the one time in that conversation that was recorded with one of the news stations. of course, you heard all of that, but i did just speak with the grandfather, and i was trying to get an interview tomorrow with one of the news stations to go there with me and they said she's not taking any interviews. >> would she talk to you alone, though, tammi? >> i don't know if i want to talk to her alone. i don't know if that's a good idea unless if it's being recorded, i don't want to talk to her.
>> everybody, the smiths taking your calls live, but as we go to break, i want to remind you, this is the one-year mark in the search for a missing 6-year-old florida boy with so many disabilities. adji desir last seen outside his grandma's home, vanishing without a trace. volunteers, cops, canines conduct multiple searches. land, air, water. still no sign. he cannot explain what's happening to him. he is nonverbal. if you have information, please, we haven't given up. call collier county sheriff 239-252-9300.
if you elect to cooperate and talk to people, that is up to you, but understand that anything you say in here may be used against you. this is all being recorded. all that said, is there anything you want to ask me or tell me? >> ask you -- i don't really know what to say, but everything is so false from the claim to
everything she said is so completely false. i don't know what else to say but that. >> back to jack and tammi smith. did you see that? elizabeth johnson, 23-year-old, says she just gave her baby away. do you believe that, what she's saying in court, it's all false, false, false? what do you think, tammi? >> we want to believe somebody has that baby. jack was extremely choked up and we -- you guys are saying things about a diaper bag and stuff and we just don't want to hear that. we are trying to just pray and just ask god to not let us think what you're saying is true and just to take that thought out of our minds because, you know, we need to stay positive with this so we can help to find him and if we're negative then that doesn't help us try to find him. >> tammi, can i tell you how much i and my staff cried when we heard what the prosecutor said?
i just -- why are you afraid to go in and talk with her without the news media? what do you think would happen? >> i just -- there's so many ugly things being said about me i don't want someone thinking there's a secret there, you know? just anybody to record it, if a police officer can record it, that's fine. i'll go talk to her. it just needs to be recorded, you know? >> i see what you're saying. i see exactly what you're saying. jack smith, what type of questions did the cops ask you in the poly? >> they asked us, did we have anything to do with his disappearance? obvious questions. do we know where he's at, so on, so forth. >> you know, they say she's got 500 bucks with her when the cops find her in a youth hostel which is basically free. miami beach, florida. based on what i've learned from you guys and the expenses i've added up, that doesn't seem to me like she sold the baby. i would think she'd have more money than that if she sold the baby. what do you think, jack?
ma'am, i have appointed the public defender to represent you. i noted you shaking your head and disagreeing with the comments -- >> yes, everything she was saying was completely false. >> please do not interrupt. i noted that you were disagreeing by nodding or by shaking your head back and forth with comments made by the county attorney at various times during her statement. while i recognize you may have a different view of what was
said -- if you elect to cooperate and talk to people, that is up to you. but understand anything you say in here may be used against you. this is all being recorded. all that said, is there anything you want to ask me or tell me? >> ask you -- i don't really know what to say, but everything is so false from the claim to everything that she said was so completely false. i don't know what else to say but that. >> all right. should you post these bonds, you are not to leave this jurisdiction. you are not to have any contact with the father, and is there anything else? >> not from the state. thank you, your honor. >> thank you, ma'am. >> when do i get a lawyer? >> i'm sorry. >> when do i get a lawyer? >> you're appointed a lawyer now. we're going to give you instructions on how to contact your lawyer. >> okay. >> thank you.
>> did she share anything with you about her whereabouts, who she was dealing with, who she was in contact with that you have not shared with police at this date? >> there's nothing that she said that we have not shared with the police since day one. she never, ever gave any specific details. it was always, you know, whether it be a domestic violence shelter, the underground. >> you are hearing tammi smith on nbc's "today" show, she's talking about how she feels duped by elizabeth johnson. we're taking your calls live. cindy, ohio. hi, cindy. >> caller: hi, nancy, thank you for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in, dear. what's your question? >> caller: i've been to airports a lot of times and never once did i ever have an urge to go up and ask a parent who was having difficult if they wanted to give their baby away. my question is, a couple nights ago the police were on their way
to nashville and the smiths said they had family there. are the police keeping them under surveillance or watching to see if one of them has the baby? >> interesting. matt zarrell, the investigators have been led to nashville, tennessee. they've been knocking on doors. what's happening? >> yes. they have received information that the possible sightings of gabriel in the area. they're looking into it. they're knocking on doors. asking questions. trying to get information out there. they're looking to this connection with tammi smith. apparently tammi smith got elizabeth johnson in touch with someone in nashville that knows adoptions. and to bring the baby home. >> you're saying tammi smith told her to bring the baby home, right? >> yes. >> how do you know that? >> well, tammi has told us on numerous occasions taht she wanted elizabeth johnson to bring the baby back and elizabeth johnson constantly refused. calling the bio dad an ugly person, did not want to bring
gabriel into an ugly custody fight. >> ann mccollum, gloria allred, all of this seems to be spurred by elizabeth johnson's distaste for the biological father. it's all about keeping the baby away from him. what about it, gloria? >> i think that's absolutely right, nancy. she had alleged in prior documents she fueled in the court in the child custody proceeding that the father had not supported the baby. she also had alleged in the past he might not be the father. so that happened before today. and she obviously does not want him to have any involvement with the baby. >> what about it, sanchez? >> you know, that's exactly why i don't think anybody believes the child is actually dead. that this is really just a custody dispute. if the woman took the child, it unproper. she took matters into her own hands. >> put sanchez back up. sanchez, she's willing to sit in
the maricopa county jail over a fight regarding custody? i don't think so. it's more than that, sanchez. >> as a matter of fact, that is her ace in the hole. she should get together with her lawyer, go to the police and prosecutor and say, look, you drop charges or you reduce the charges and i'll tell you where the child is. that's the way this case should be resolved. >> anne bremner? >> i agree. i think -- call me mad cat -- >> you agree with whoo? >> the whole fact she should come out and say this is a custody matter and not criminal. she wanted a lawyer. that's the last thing she said. the fact is, there's no crime here in terms of this child. these things get very heated, very ugly. this may be one of the ugliest ones ever. >> anne bremner, how can you say that when you, yourself, have taken sides when one parent takes the baby away from the other parent? that's a crime. that's custodial interference. >> you bet it is. the fact of the matter is custodial interference is different than kidnapping and murder. >> it's still a crime. >> i'm sorry. what, nancy? >> it's still a crime. >> but it's a lesser crime. >> so? that is not civil.
>> she was not aware of the order, potentially. potentially, yes. kidnapping, homicide, you bet you, nancy. >> no homicide charge yet. of course, it's a lesser offense but it's still a felony. what about it, mccollum? >> nobody innocent has that baby. you're talking about a woman that ditched her car and bought a one-way ticket. that is fleeing. period. >> out to the lines. belinda, indiana. hi, belinda. i think i have belinda with me. are you there, dear? >> caller: hello. >> okay. lost her. tammy, massachusetts. hi, tammy. >> caller: hi, nancy. i don't know how you do this every night and go home to the twins. you must want to squeeze them every day. >> for one thing, right here beside me i have a nanny cam and i can see every single thing that's going on at the house this very minute. this minute. i don't think i could stand it if i -- >> caller: -- insight to this type of stuff happening so people, the public, can be aware of what's happening and keep their eyes open and watch what's going on at airports and bus stops and things like that,
maybe they can find this baby. one thing i was wondering, did she have a gps in her car or is anyone aware that she had a gps? >> good question. good question. what about it, michael board? what do we know? i want to know the answer to that if you've got it and where are they getting the fact about the diaper bag? that's a very fact -- detailed fact they had to get from somewhere. what about it, board? >> well, the answer to the question about the car is the only thing we know that was found in the car was the car seat, which is very surprising. why, if you're giving a child away, would you not give a car seat away as well? it's strange they found the car seat still in the car. as far as the gps we don't know if that gps was in the car or not. if that was, i'm sure it's under investigation right now from the police. >> diaper bag, what do you know about the fact they said in court she kills the baby, conceals the body in a diaper bag, throws the baby in the trash? what do you know?
>> i believe that was something that was involved in the conversation between elizabeth johnson and logan mcqueary. i believe she told him she put the baby in the diaper bag and tossed it in a dumpster. >> how do you even say that? >> when she left the country. >> how do you even say those words about killing your own child? what kind of mind could do that? to dr. jennifer shu, pediatrician, editor of "baby and child help." dr. shu, if this child, i can remember when john david and lucy finally came home from the hospital. lucy weighed 2 pounds at birth. the dedication you have to have to take care of a little baby properly is a very, very serious issue. to just give the baby away to somebody you meet at the park, what dangers is the baby facing? >> clearly, she's not working in her right mind. the baby i would worry about not being taken care of. the baby could be hyperthermic,
could be dehydrated. could be suffocated if it was stuffed in some kind of bag. that would have to be a big diaper bag. the baby is 20 pounds and 2 feet long. that's pretty large. i do worry about that baby being in serious danger. >> jack smith, tammi smith. first to you, tammi, do you have any information about the gps in the car? >> i don't know if they recovered it, but i know that she definitely had it, because when i dropped the baby off to her at that church it was dark outside. she had the gps on the windshield lit up. >> everybody, we are taking your calls live. tip line for baby gabriel. 1-800-the-lost. 1-800-843-5678. we'll be right back. as we go to break, happy birthday to california friend, emma. she's a victorian literature fiend and she never, ever misses our show. emma, happy birthday, friend.
there would be nothing that they can charge us with because we have done nothing. we've done everything that the police have asked us. >> arizona police say a couple who wanted to adopt gabriel johnson are now persons of interest in his disappearance. jack and tammi smith admit they met gabriel's mother but don't know where gabriel is. >> we have good indication at this point with our investigation that tammi and jack smith do know more information they have provided to us that could possibly lead us to gabriel. >> tell me why you believe that baby is alive. what do you know that makes you believe the baby is alive, mr. smith? >> you know, it's just a heart thing, and i'm sorry that that's probably not the answer that
everybody a wanting to hear. >> elizabeth johnson who allegedly first claims she killed her child now says she gave him away in san antonio. >> she said that she met a couple in the park. >> of course, if that were to be true the "x" factor is, was that family from san antonio? were they from texas? were they from another state? we don't know. >> i can't believe she went down there and miraculously found two people in a park to dump the baby on. >> it's on the border of unbelievable that a person would do that with an 8-month-old child. >> everything she's said has been unreliable. >> she didn't want logan to have the baby and we couldn't adopt the baby because logan wouldn't sign the papers. so her idea was to just keep running forever. >> do you believe your son is still alive at this point? >> yes. >> why? >> just a feeling. >> ma'am, i have appointed the public defender to represent you. i noted you shaking your head and disagreeing with comments --
>> yes, everything she was saying was completely false. >> please do not interrupt. i noted you were disagreeing by nodding or -- or by shaking your head back and forth, with comments made by the county attorney at various times during her statement. while i recognize you may have a different view of what was said -- >> we also learned that no composite sketch has been released of this couple who allegedly took off with the baby. what about it, michael board? what do we know? is elizabeth johnson cooperating with police? >> no. not in the least bit. she's not helping them. not telling them anything. she's not helping them make a sketch. she is quiet. she is asking for her attorney. that's it. no help whatsoever. >> response to jack and tammi smith. what do you make of that, jack smith? >> i don't know what to make of much of anything these days.
i have to be honest with you. it's just one of those things that she appeared something totally different than she wound up being and we feel quite duped. you're correct. >> in what way were you duped? >> we were given papers that showed certain things she did, like the parenting classes, she went to extensive parents classes. she also went to -- she had all the shot records that were up to date and -- >> and telling us, you know, horrible things about her ex and how, you know, just all the things about him and, oh, go look at his record. you can find -- you know, showing us his record and showing us how her record has, you know, just -- she didn't stop at a stop light, you know? and just the poor, pitiful, single mom -- it's just, i feel like an idiot, you know? >> matt zarrell, is she cooperating with police on the composite or any other way? >> not in any way at all. police are saying she is the only person that knows exactly
where gabriel is and she is not telling them anything. >> this sounds like exactly what cops said about tot mom before the little caylee's body was found. this is exactly what they were saying. remember? lawyers, gloria allred, alex sanchez, anne bremner, cheryl mccollum. that's what they said. she holds the key. remember that, sheryl? >> absolutely. she's the last one with the baby. she had motive to get rid of the baby. she's the one who's fleeing. she's the one who can't cooperate. >> what about it, gloria? >> yeah, she had also alleged earlier in her filings that the father, the person who now is alleged to be the father, logan, that he had a criminal record and that she was very concerned about that. this is a young woman who grew up in many foster care homes herself. apparently, she wanted a better future for her child, but what is going to be the future for her child?
we don't know now if her child will even have a future. >> alex sanchez, what can she do right now to save her own skin? >> you know, if the state is so interested in finding out the whereabouts of that child, let them provide her with an attorney right now. don't tell her, yeah, we're going to give you the name of an attorney and call the attorney up. let an attorney come in right now and have a discussion with her so the attorney can then contact the assistant district attorney and possibly work out some reasonable resolution to this matter. >> well, what that sounds like to me, anne bremner, is some kind of a deal. a plea deal. if she killed this baby and put that baby in a diaper bag and threw him in the trash, no deal. >> probably not, but the fact is they don't even believe that text where she supposedly said that. they've said they don't believe it and the child's alive. the difference between this case and tot mom, tragically in tot mom's case, they did find the
body and connected the evidence. >> after months and months on end. out to the lines. sherry, new jersey. hi, sherry. >> caller: hi, nancy. first i'd like to say i'm a very, very happy fan tonight, and i have one thing to say. hi, hon, what's your question? enough about that. i just had to get that out. my question is for the smiths. how long did they know the baby's mother or how well did they interact with this baby? for them to say that during the polygraph test they were emotionally showing that they were emotionally attached. >> good question. good question. to you, tammi smith, how long had you known her? >> well, i met her seven months ago so i didn't know her until she came and called us on the 8th. probably nine or ten days. but, you know, the thing about emotionally attached to -- not to her, to gabriel, you know? yes, we had some attachment. i mean, anybody would have attachment even if that baby
came to your house for 24 hours. you still have that love for that child that you held and you hugged and played with. you fed him and changed his diaper. and, you know, and taught him to how to eat a spoon. he couldn't really eat with a spoon when we got him. we tried to teach him how to crawl. you know? nine or ten days, i'm sorry, we fell in love with him. >> you just used past tense. you just said we had attachment. mr. and mrs. smith, please take a second polygraph. i find it very difficult to believe two of you in two separate tests were inconclusive. >> hold on, everybody. we'll be right back. the smiths are here taking your calls but as we go to break, we ask for your thoughts and prayers for georgia friend gary mann, recovering from pneumonia. he is a university grad of mercer university. he founded the annual gary mann
thanksgiving turkey fry raising thousands for people who suffer muscular dystrophy. he authored a book, "everybody is special." he started writing it at 9 years old on a typewriter. after 15 years of working for the city of macon, georgia, he is now being laid off from his job. gary, please, stay strong.
ma'am, i have appointed the public defender to represent you. i noted you shaking your head and disagreeing with the comments -- >> yes, everything she was saying was completely false. >> please, do not interrupt. >> to you, anne bremner. so while her son, her infant at best, at best is off with a couple she's never met before, she's gone on a shopping spree for clothes and getting her nails done. how's that going to look in front of a jury, anne bremner? what would you do with that? >> of course, i'll give you a
quote. >> that smile might work on me but not on a jury. >> one quote chas closed mouth gathers no foot. she shouldn't be speaking. on that, you know, completely consistent with innocence. i mean, she is out doing these things and the child is with somebody that the child should be with. doesn't look good tie tot mom partying when her child was missing. what about it, gloria allred? >> well, we don't know really what happened, nancy. i feel for the mother but i feel more for the child. and -- >> what do you feel for the mother? >> i think -- >> what may i ask do you feel for the snore. >> this mother has had a very tough life. has strong feelings about the father. we don't know why. it doesn't justify what she's done. whatever that is, whether it's placing the child for adoption. which is giving to -- >> half of america is divorced and angry after their spouse. over half of america. i don't care. i don't care if she has strong feelings about her -- i don't care. that has nothing to do with this, gloria. >> well, the reason that i care
is because i think we need to understand her in order to get the answers from her and she's the one who holds the key to where baby gabriel is. >> you know what? you're right, you're right about that, gloria allred. everyone, let's stop and remember army corporal zach ri baker, 14, arkansas. killed iraq. awarded the bronze star, the purple heart, national defense service medal. remembered for selflessness, good nature. would give you the shirt off his back. loved family, red sox, arkansas radarbacks, country music. favorite food, chicken. leaves behind grieving parents, sister cara, brother shane, widow christina, son andrew. zach ri baker, american hero. thank you to our guests but our biggest thank you is to you for inviting all of us into your homes. i'll see you tomorrow night 8:00
sharp eastern. and until then, good night, friend. hello. i'm a.j. hammer. that is "showbiz tonight" news break. here's what's coming up on "showbiz tonight" at the top of the hour. caught on tape. tonight, the very first brand new video of kate gosselin getting her controversial makeover and mel gibson's explosive new advice to tiger woods. why mel says tiger needs to man up and take responsibility for his cheating. that is your "showbiz tonight" news break. tv's most provocative entertainment news show starts